我更愿是一个旁观者

我更愿是一个旁观者

我更愿是一个旁观者

时间:2012-02-28 10:48:24 来源:

>我更愿是一个旁观者

        与大多年青艺术家作品不同的是,杨勋的绘画充满了理性的感伤。假山、亭台、残垣……记忆和想像在黑暗中凝固、定格,像是刻意地被曝光,形成了那些优雅、细腻的画面。画家刻意编织的“局”,被显影般地慢慢清晰。杨勋似乎无意纠缠历史和过去,他更想制造一个瞬间,一个可以和心交流的触点。聚焦在每一个特写中,我们拼命想去发现细节,总是离得越近,越感到茫然和不知所措。杨勋似乎摆出的就是这样一个“谜局”,难道我们非要刨根问底,去掀开幕布看看究竟?
        ——朱 彤
        —杨勋访谈
        访谈时间:2008年3月
        访谈地点:南京莫愁湖畔
        对 话 人:朱 彤(策展人)以下简称朱
        杨 勋(艺术家)以下简称杨
        朱:你是土生土长的重庆人,现在仍然在那里生活,有没有想过离开。
        杨:暂时没想过,川美的环境和艺术氛围还不错,北京以后可能会偶尔去工作一下,我也不是很想呆在北京做事情。
        朱:从附中到现在你一直呆在川美和重庆,对于你而言,对川美有更多依赖还是对重庆这这城市有更多的依赖?
        杨:对川美的依赖应该多一些。川美有好的艺术氛围和环境,很多人一毕业就在川美附近租工作室。从学生的时候就产生了在这个附近延续发展的想法。而且重庆这个城市本身就是充满活力的,美食和美女都响誉全国。
        朱:重庆本来就是个“魔幻”的城市,尤其是川美所在的黄桷坪更加有这样的感觉。
        杨:黄桷坪是中国社会的一个缩影,很富有的人可以在这里生活,很穷的人也可以过得很好,涂鸦街的出现使得整个黄桷坪更加增添了一份热闹的气氛。
        朱:川美在中国当代艺术的发展过程中,涌现出了很多杰出的艺术家,像“伤痕美术时期”的何多苓、罗中立,“85美术新潮”后的        叶永青、张晓刚,包括现在更年轻的艺术家等等。这些艺术家有没有对你产生影响。
        杨:毫无疑问,“川帮”艺术家一直有老一代带新一代的传统,这个是不能刻意回避的,而且是自然形成的。他们在我们学校里,更多的是一种榜样的力量。虽然跟他们不是经常联系,但是他们对我的影响更多的是精神层面上的。外界因素其实对我的影响不是很大,在什么地方做艺术,对我来说都是一样的。
        朱:“ 80后”的艺术家,大多的艺术体裁表现在“卡通”和一些轻松嘻皮的作品上,但是在你的作品中,表现出的东西跟其他同龄艺术家的反差特别大。
        杨:现在所谓的“卡通”只是批评家和策展人的一种表面化的定义,是不是真的“卡通”还需要观众来做价值上的判断,我从小就不太喜欢“卡通”的东西,我的创作也是比较自我化的,我喜欢寻找到一种艺术样式,就把它保持下去,不会受流行文化因素的影响。我喜欢流行和时尚,但是我不热爱它,更不会跟风。
        朱:你很独立,跟其他艺术家在交流的过程中会不会觉得有“孤单”的感觉。
        杨:是的,但是我觉得这种坚持是有必要的,而且现阶段我是刻意地去回避一些东西的影响。艺术家无论是现在还是以后的艺术创作,都要有总体的理念。我喜欢的艺术家像莫兰迪,他对当下流行的东西很敏感,但是对不同的题材他有不同的观点,我想我可以在传统文化和流行文化中寻找一个平衡点。
        朱:年轻艺术家中很少有知道莫兰迪的。你的作品中也有许多冷静和富有内涵的气质。
        杨:艺术看长远一点,才能够体现出它自身的价值。你不能受外界太多的影响,必须坚持自己的艺术理念,并且在自己的内心世界里寻找对艺术的感受,并不断地表达它。
        朱:关于当代艺术流行的样式在美术史上能否成立,我们今天还无法判断,也许需好几十年甚至更长的时间来回顾历史的时候,我们才能给出明确的价值判断。虽然说在一段时间内艺术的形式是多样化的,但是在中国的当下,太多的年轻艺术家在做雷同的作品,在这里并不是要批判“卡通艺术”,只是越来越多的年轻艺术家在走向这个方向,可能和现在的商业效应有密切的联系。回到你的作品,你好象对传统艺术一直很热爱。
        杨:这可能和我的创作方法有关系,我喜欢用毛笔画画,最早画小溪和山石的作品,我觉得用这种材质来表现,非常适合我的创作需要。后来就逐渐形成了我对传统绘画方式的偏爱和依赖。
        朱:毛笔是中国传统绘画中必不可少的工具,尤其是宋元对笔的运用已经发挥到了极致。平时看一些中国传统文化的书吗?
        杨:看过一些,但是不多。我觉得对传统文化的理解我是个局外人,我们“80后”的一代人似乎受到外来文化的影响比较大。对传统文化的了解还是从小的积累,小时候学过点国画,看过《西游记》、《红楼梦》等电视剧,其实对中国传统文化的理解是很表面化的。
        朱:即便是如此,在你的作品中还是表现出了“天人合一” 的中国传统文人画意境。
        杨:我的作品体现出来的还是跟当下环境相关的,我比较喜欢逆流而上,一定要和主流文化刻意地保持一定的距离,这样反而是对传统不自觉地选择。
        朱:你的早期作品中有很多表现园林山水的场景,而且像是苏州园林等南方园林的感觉,这种图像的来源是你的亲身经历还是自己的噫想呢?
        杨:我去过很多园林,印象最深刻的是毕业前去苏州园林的那次,走进去的感觉像走进了一种梦境,长期以来一直寻找的梦境。因为当时的想法是想逃离当下的主流文化,到了苏州园林仿佛找到了内心的需要,于是就把园林主题放在了自己的创作中。
        朱:相较于你以前的作品,最近的作品中表现的都是很局部的场景。
        杨:我不知道是不是真的受到了王家卫《花样年华》的影响。我喜欢里面隐隐的,暧昧感觉的画面。在近期的作品中,光的出现,是想把自己放在审视者的角度去搜寻历史。因为我看传统东西还是很模糊的,需要借助外在的力量看清楚。
        朱:之前作品画面的感觉非常唯美,但是近期的作品却透露出一种伤感、颓废和惊恐。
        杨:这和我最近的心态有直接的关系,我想摆脱传统意义上所谓的“美”,我的作品给人的第一感觉首先是突然间的震撼,然后才是残缺的美感。
        朱:你的绘画中有很多影像的因素在里面,比如说图片、video的感觉,为什么单单选择绘画的方式而不用更直观、更方便的媒介呢?
        杨:这和我受到的教育有一定的关系,我对绘画还是有点依赖和迷恋的。这跟“川美”的大环境也有一定的关系,也许以后会尝试做一些其他艺术形式的作品,但就展览来说,我可能会布置一个恐怖的环境,用一个空间来表现自己的作品。
        朱:恐怖的环境?
        杨:因为我觉得现在的艺术大多追求一种表面化的唯美,而表现对心灵直接伤害的东西比较少,我就想从作品中把这些唯美的东西打碎。当然我以前也画过梅、兰、竹、菊、荷花等很美的东西,但是现在我想通过打破这种美,唤起人们对历史的回忆。接下来,我会加一些人物的东西,来体现我对历史人物的搜寻。我觉得自己就是搜寻历史的人,是一个历史的旁观者和审视者,用作品中的光束,把观者直接带到历史的面前,产生心理上的共鸣。
        朱:你的作品好像很费时间。
        杨:大画一般需要两个月的时间,虽然这个过程非常消耗精力,但完成以后给我带来的快感是非常巨大的。开始的时候比较强调对整体图象的把握,但是在创作的过程中我就慢慢比较强调对细节的处理。
        朱:在艺术发展的今天,像安迪•沃霍,杰夫•昆斯等等,在艺术创作中充当的往往是一个艺术导演的角色。我们总是用一种艺术语言去表现想法是非常局限的,当然我们不排除一些艺术家对单一艺术语言的执着,在这个近似枯燥的过程中,也可以享受到许多乐趣。
        杨:不同的艺术想法需要不同的艺术手段去实现。也许你在这个媒介中不是控制得很好,你也可以去找其他的人配合你来完成。
        朱:你作品有很多关联着历史和传统,之前是你在苏州园林的经历,触发了你对历史的搜寻。
        杨:苏州园林我去过3次,而且我一直都很想夜游苏州园林,体验一下梦境的感觉。从形式上来讲,我以前的作品是方中见圆,带有一种窥视的感觉。现在的作品把这个圆去掉了,让观者走进去,给他们一点想象的空间。圆在中国传统绘画里也是一个象征,比如团扇的绘画、中秋的寓意等等。
        朱:在近期的作品中,我发现在你的画面中开始出现类似“废墟”的图像,隐晦中透着迷离。
        杨:历史其实有点像幕布后的东西,真实中又带着谎言。我喜欢雾里看花的感觉。
        朱:我觉得近期你一直在找一种东西。像通过一个密道,返往过去和现实之间。
        杨:艺术和生活一样,没人能说得太清楚。艺术家能做的事情不是太多,艺术有时是非常个人的,我非常享受这种工作给我带来的享受。就像一个小孩子在搭积木玩具,倒了再来,完成了再推倒,周而复始。其实一切就是这么简单。

        Unlike most young artists' artworks, Yang Xun's paintings are filled fill rational sadness. Faux mountains, pavilions, remnant walls ... his memories and imagination condenses, captured in darkness, and they seem to have been purposefully exposed to make up for the elegant and detailed imagery. The 'plot' the artists planned on purpose gradually becomes distinct as it's being projected. Yang Xun seems uninterested in entangling history or the past, but in creating a moment, a point where one can communicate with the soul. Our attention is captured in every detail. We try to discover details, yet the closer we approach them, the more confused and lost we feel. Yang Xun presented this "maze" candidly. Is it necessary for us to uncover it, to unveil the hanging drapery and see what's behind it?
        ——Zhu Tong
 
        I would rather be an observer
        Time: March, 2008
        Venue: Mochou lake, Nanjing
        Participants: Zhu Tong (curator, abbreviated as Zhu below)
            Yang Xun (artist, abbreviated as Yang below)
        Zhu: You were born in Chongqing, grew up there, and are still living there. Have you ever thought about leaving?
        Yang: I haven't for now. The artistic environment of the Sichuan Academy of Art is great, I will probably work in Beijing once in a while, although I have no intention of moving there.
        Zhu: I have always been at the Sichuan Academy in Chongqing. Do you feel you have a dependence on the Sichuan Academy or Chongqing in general?
        Yang: I feel more dependent on the Sichuan Academy. It has a great artistic community and environment, and many graduates rent studios around the area after their graduation. Many of them have the idea of continuing to grow in this area even when they were still students. Moreover, the city of Chongqing has its vitality, and its delicious cuisine and beautiful girls are famous nation wide.
        Zhu: Chongqing has always been a city of "magic and fantasy", especially in Huangjueping where the Sichuan Academy of Art is located.
        Yang: Huangjueping encapsulates Chinese society in general. Wealthy people can live here, and the have-nots can also survive. Graffiti street has invigorated Huangjueping with more excitement.
        Zhu: Many outstanding artists have emerged from the Sichuan Academy of Art in the course of the development of Chinese contemporary art. For instance, He Duoling and Luo Zhongli from the Scar Art period, Ye Yongqing, Zhang Xiaogang since the '85 New Wave movement, as well as many more younger artists. Do these artists have an influence on you?
        Yang: Certainly, artists of the "Sichuan tribe" have always followed the tradition of young artists growing with their predecessors. It is something that cannot be ignored, and it came into form naturally. They have been models of imitation in our school. Even though I haven't been in touch with them very often, their influence has always been at the spiritual level for me. Whereas external influence has not been prominent for me, it is the same for me to carry out my artistic practice anywhere.
        Zhu: Artists born in the '80s have mostly focused their artistic subjects on "cartoons" and some humorous subjects, although we see large disparity in your work compared to works by the same generation of artists.
        Yang: The so-called "cartoon"is only a superficial definition from certain critics and curators. Whether it's cartoon or not, the audience should make the final call. Since childhood, I have never been a fan of "cartoons", and my artistic practice tends to be individualistic. I like to search for an artistic form, and try to sustain it, and I am not swayed by popular cultural factors. I like trends and fashion, but I am not passionate about them, nor would I follow them.
        Zhu: You seen rather independent. Do you have a sense of "solitude" when you communicate with other artists?
        Yang: Indeed. Although I think such persistence is necessary, especially now, I am purposefully trying to avoid certain influence. An artist's practice, either in the present or for the future, should follow an overall concept. Giorgio Morandi, an artist I like, is very sensitive to current trends, although he has different views on different subjects. I believe I can find the equilibrium point between traditional cultural and popular culture.
        Zhu: There are few young artists who know about Giorgio Morandi. There are many qualities of calmness and rich meanings.
        Yang: Artistic practices should look into the long term for its values to be revealed. One should not be affected by external factors, but to stand by one's own artistic concept, and search for one's own artistic sense internally, and constantly express it.
        Zhu: It is impossible to judge at the present whether popular forms of contemporary art will be tenable or not in the history of art, perhaps we would only provide a clearer evaluation in a few decades or even longer period of time. Even though artistic forms can be diversified in a given time period, however, currently there are many young artists producing similar works currently. I am not criticizing "cartoon art", only that more and more artists are developing into that direction. Perhaps this is a direct consequence of commercial impact. Yet, looking at your work, you seem to be always interested in traditional art.
        Yang: Perhaps it's related to my creative method. I like to draw with the Chinese brush. Early on when I painted streams and stones, I felt it was the most appropriate material. Later on, it became my preference, and I depended on traditional art forms.
        Zhu: Chinese brush is indispensable in traditional Chinese art. Especially during the Song dynasty, the use of the brush was explored to the fullest. Do you usually read books on traditional Chinese culture?
        Yang: I have read some, but very few. I feel like an outsider in terms of understanding traditional culture. Our generation of the post-'80s has been heavily influenced by imported cultures. Our understanding of traditional culture is an accumulation since childhood. For instance, I have learnt how to paint Chinese paintings as a child, watched sitcoms on Journey to the West, Dream of the Red Mansion and etc. In fact, our understanding on traditional Chinese culture is rather superficial.
        Zhu: Nevertheless, the realm of "harmony between men and nature" found in traditional literati paintings is fully expressed in your works.
        Yang: What has been expressed in my works is nevertheless relevant to the environment at present. I prefer to work against the current, and would like to be purposefully distant to mainstream culture, which in contrast, subconsciously chose traditional culture.
        Zhu: There are many renderings of gardens and landscapes among your earlier works, especially on the gardens of the south like Suzhou, does the origin of such imagery come from your own experience or are they your imagination?
        Yang: I have visited many gardens, and my most fond memories are those gardens in Suzhou. It felt like I walked into a dream, a dream that I have always been searching for. The idea at the time was to escape from the current mainstream culture, and having been to the gardens in Suzhou seemed to have satisfied my inner need. Therefore, I adopted the theme of gardens into my creative practice.
        Zhu: Compared to your earlier works, your recent works seem to depict more detailed scenes.
        Yang: I am uncertain whether I have been affected by Wong Kar-wai's film In the Mood for Love, but I love his obscure and ambiguous images. In my recent works, the appearance of the luminous effect is to allow myself to take the perspective of the observer in searching for history. Because I still feel hazy on traditional subjects, and I need to borrow external assistance to examine it more lucidly.
        Zhu: The imagery in your previous work seems to be quite idealistic. However, in recent works, there seems to be a sense of sorrow, frustration and fear expressed.
        Yang: This is a direct consequence of my state of being. I attempt to break away from "beauty" of the traditional sense, and the immediate impression of my works to others is initial shock followed by the beauty of imperfection.
        Zhu: There are many elements of photography in your paintings. For instance, one perceives elements of photography and video art, yet why do you only choose painting as your approach of expression rather than something more candid and convenient?
        Yang: Perhaps my dependence and nostalgia for painting is partially related to the education I received. Perhaps it is also somewhat relevant to the environment at the Sichuan Academy. I might also explore other artistic forms in the future, of course. As for exhibiting my works, I would create a fearsome setting, and use a space to convey my works.
        Zhu: A fearsome setting?
        Yang: Recently, I sense that artworks in general attempt to achieve superficial aesthetics, and there are few who express the things hurtful to their soul, whereas, I want to shatter these aesthetic ideals in my work. Of course, I have also drawn beautiful things like plum blossom, orchids, bamboos, chrysanthemum, and lotus flowers. Now I want to awaken people's memories of history by breaking these ideals. Soon I am going to insert figures to display my search on historical figures. I feel like I have taken on the role to look into history, an observer and examiner of history. I use the rays of my work to bring viewers before history, and reach a profound psychological understanding.
        Zhu: Your work seems to be quite time-consuming.
        Yang: Large paintings usually take two month to complete. Although it can be a consuming process, but the satisfaction upon completion is often gratifying. At the beginning I focused on my command of the overall imagery, although in the course of painting, I gradually shift this focus to depicting details.
        Zhu: As art develops today, artists like Andy Warhol and Jeff Koons have often taken on the role of the director in their practices. Our usual expression with one particular artistic language can often be limiting, although we are not excluding certain artists' persistence on one single language. In this monotonous process, one often values their enjoyment.
        Yang: Different artistic concepts need to be conveyed through different artistic approaches. Perhaps, you are not quite skilled in one medium, but you can always ask others to collaborate with you.
        Zhu: There are many implications of history and tradition in your work, like your experience in the gardens of Suzhou that embarked your search for history.
        Yang: I have been to the gardens in Suzhou three times, and I have always wanted to roam the gardens at night, to experience a dream-like realm. Formalistically speaking, my previous works are convergent, with a voyeuristic sense. And now the focus has been taken out, letting the audience walk into a space and leave them room for imagination. The concept of the circle is symbolic in traditional Chinese art. For instance, on fan paintings, the metaphor in mid-autumn festivals and etc.
        Zhu: In your recent works, I began to notice imagery of the "ruin", vagueness in obscurity.
        Yang: History is like what's behind the curtain - there are lies in truth. I like the feeling of viewing flowers in the mist.
        Zhu: I feel you have been searching for something recent. As if you are in a secret tunnel, traveling between the past and reality.
        Yang: Like life, no one can explain art clearly. There is not much to be done by artists, and art is often quite personal. I appreciate the enjoyment this work has brought me. Like a child playing with blocks, once it collapses, you start all over again. Starting from new again, in fact everything is as simple as this.

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